I KEEL YOU NOW!

[ornoth]

So I was having one of those initial get-to-know-you conversations with a new friend. She’d perused my blog a bit and had a couple interesting observations after reading my most recent post about feelings here.

In response to my lifelong question about whether I have emotions and to what degree, and my pursuit of those elusive feelings, she offered the following: Don’t confuse strength of emotion with depth of emotion.

That’s really an interesting thought: that one can have deep/meaningful emotions without being particularly demonstrative or effusive. Is it true? Can someone have such depth while still showing a placid demeanor to the world?

Certainly there are things I feel strongly about that I don’t visibly manifest for others’ benefit, and sometimes I’ve been criticized for expressing deep emotions in this journal that were hidden from others who were present at the time! So maybe it’s true: when talking about feelings, emotional strength and depth are independent variables.

The other thing dealt with gender roles and preconceptions.

We’re all very used to thinking about men as penile: all about probing and penetration and aggression. What people fail to remember is that men also have testes. And what do testicles do? They hang out. They’re there, but they generally don’t get in the way. They’re pretty simple and easygoing.

Can that be extended to our conception of masculinity? Certainly men have the ability to be laid back, easygoing, strong, and paternal, in a way that women generally do not manifest. It’s that quiet strength and calming presence that often gets very lost in the public conception of masculinity. My friend contrasted it with the nearly hysterical “dyke dramas” that spiraled out of control in an all-female household she’d lived in.

She also extended the metaphor to include the womb in childbirth as an alternative model for the feminine: embodying pushing, rejecting, and loss, rather than the usual welcoming and nurturing.

I don’t have so much to say about that, myself, but I thought it worth including as a point for thought. But I do definitely think we need to do a better job correcting the balance between the image of male as pushy, demanding, and violent versus that reassuring, protective, and steadying presence that is probably a more accurate depiction of masculinity.

Comments

[awfief.livejournal.com]

In fact, in high-drama communities (think the all-girl cat fights, and the cruising part of the gay community), strength of emotion is often seen as "crying wolf" or "protesting too much". The stronger the emotion is conveyed, the less depth is attributed to it. (or less validity, anyway, but generally it's seen that high-drama people are high-drama because they're not actually feeling deeply about the whole situation, just one very small part of it. Maybe that's breadth instead of depth...who knows?)

So yes, there's a balance between being so stoic as to wondering whether you have emotions and being high-drama, leaving other people wondering if you actually have any introspection whatsoever.

I wrote more, but I decided to post it in my journal.

[ornoth.livejournal.com]

Huh. Interesting point. Yeah, there are people who are so high-drama that their protestations do come across as somehow insincere or at least not quite based on a full/broad understanding of the facts. Another interesting point to think upon.

And, uh... When's the rest of your thoughts going to show up in your journal, or were you referring to your private/written journal?

[awfief.livejournal.com]

That's the stoic/foul weather friends thing. I basically was writing a lot of "I see that in me, sometimes" and realized it'd be better off in my lj.

http://awfief.livejournal.com/481257.html

[slinkr.livejournal.com]

This notion of men as being naturally calmer and steadier than women usually comes attached to the idea that women are emotionally volatile (and therefore unable to be trusted with authority and leadership responsibilities) because they're at the mercy of their menstrual cycles.

[ornoth.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Interesting associations, most of which I was unaware of.

Well, calmer and steadier I'll buy as a generalization, but with the caveat that all generalizations fail in individual instances.

Extrapolating that to "woman are untrustworthy" seems a rather substantial overreaction, though. I thought that whole "I have emotions, therefore I'm a danger to everyone around me" went out a long time ago, at least in my circles.

And then attributing all that to menses? That's just cracked. Sure, women have hormonal variations, but emotions are a much more than just a periodic fluctuation... and one which varies greatly in its effect from individual to individual.

It does bring up an interesting question, though. My understanding is that the BCP moderates women's hormonal fluctuations; I wonder whether there's been a noticeable change in the overall moodiness of women, or the perception thereof, as a result of the recent availability of BCPs. Huh. Just thinking out loud again...

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

In my case, I never noticed that I had PMS until my most recent birth control prescription, when 2-3 days before my period I would get an inescapable day-long headache and turn into a complete bitch, overreacting and angry in a way I couldn't control. (I was remarking to my husband that, gosh, apparently I get PMS on this brand of pill! weird! and he said, uh, you always got it, just never this severely, at which point of course I bit his head off).

Anyway, I don't think there's anything unreasonable in saying that women can have hormonally influenced emotional variation, or that BCP can affect that (actually I hear some fairly dramatic tales of the interaction between preexisting mental health issues and hormonal birth control from some of my friends), but I think it would be awfully hazardous to say that it affects all women similarly.

[iniren.livejournal.com]

Well, don't confuse depth/strength of feelings with their expression. Drama people can strongly feel and express "shallow" emotions (then again, when is an emotion not "deep" if you're really feeling it? At that moment, it just might be.)

Other people, like you, can have deep and/or strong emotions, but have no outer manifestation at all. Doesn't mean you're not feeling it - you just need to figure out a way to share it w/ others in a way that works for both you and for them.

And yea, I can certainly think of more laid-back men than women, in general. But, sadly, that "reassuring, protective, and steadying presence", though excellent, can sadly often also come off as not caring.

I think it also has a lot to do with how we're used to perceiving and reacting to emotions, and how we all try to connect, or feel connected, with others.

Interesting thoughts.

[ornoth.livejournal.com]

Mmm. Interesting. Do you think I fall into that strong, steady thing? I guess I could. I kind of think of it as just being laid-back and keeping a long-term perspective and not getting all agitated over stuff that's beyond one's crontol. But you're right in that it might be something that suppresses the visibility of my emotions. Hmmm.